Time
2023-06-15
Description
I: Okay fine, we have another picture registered with the number 2018_18320_001, look at it, can you identify what this is?
R: This is a walking stick which was used by those who used to wear robes.
I: What were those sticks commonly called in Samba language?
R: In front here they could carve as it was done by the Maasai people, they could carve a shape of a person or any kind of animal, so there were trees called ebony trees which were very hard that you can carve, it is a walking stick that was used by those who wore robes especially the kilindi’s, you can see this is a picture of a bird that was drawn...
I: It looks like a rabbit.
R: It looks like a rabbit with ears, so when you welcome him...
I: Did the stick had a special name when it was used by those rulers?
R: They used to say it is a King or Jumbe walking stick, nobody touched them, they were only held by famous people.
I: Like those from Kilindi...
R: Yes especially the Kilindi, our fellows from Kilindi took a big chance, but now it is not a secret they are not existing…they are not the original from Kilindi, it used to be that period, currently if you are called Mkilindi, you hear them saying 'oh stop that the, original Mkilindi was in the past', in the past he had the power even to take your wife, when looking at her he could send his servants ‘go and tell Mr. Hiza, the woman is a Murugu' and if she was given the name 'Murugu', when he came he took her to his house, or if they did not believe they were given the walking stick to go with it to show this is Jumbe’s message...
I: A walking stick like this?
R: Yes, it was like this, this was a Jumbe walking stick, no one was allowed to touch this stick, it was only for Jumbe, so her daughter will be required to go with Jumbe.
I: So the walking stick was a chance of using force...
R: It was like a chance of using force to people who had poor life, I mean they had their own things, during the colonialism and this period... we should thank the white people for bringing us... and we should also thank Nyerere, probably upto this moment we could be under the colonial rule, but now you could even see yourself educated and having the memories of the past events, I couldn’t even remember this at all, it is not easier, and now the government is currently using this research, know that it issues of memory, you can see Mr. Chei having some plates with pictures showing a person fetching water, they are made of clay.
I: Such walking sticks like these were mostly available in which regions?
R: In Tanga region at Handeni, especially the region of Tanga at masai areas, in Singida, there is like the chief Mkwawa in Iringa, in Iringa they still have the traditional matters, it was in Iringa, in Tanga and Kilindi, Kilindi really ruled a lot, the Bondei was also good.
I: So currently the walking stick is completely not I use?
R: This time it is impossible to get it, where will you find it, although people are trying to look for such walking sticks, now where are the trees, it is a desert, during that period elephants and leopards used to pass through here, goats were being chased by leopards, but currently there are no places to graze, they are only farms.
I: So you mean they are not made anymore?
R: In fact, if you hold the stick, they will tell you he pretending to be an old man’
All: Laughing.
R: Just the stick I want it to help me like that of Mzee Chaii over there, they say soon you have become an old at this moment, really, I am very grateful for reminding me of the past, I am very grateful.
I: Can you tell me, what kind of people used to make those sticks?
R: There were people with their professions like this, you can be told to make a stick like this, they were like slaves, they were directed, do this and this by the chiefs, make it like this and this, carve it like this, there were very sharp knives called ‘okapi’, they were used for carving, those knives were very sharp, so when they came they were directing make it this way, carve it like this and do this
I: And this picture looks bright, it is very clear, what were they applying to make it look like this?
R: Sometimes they could apply cow fat, it is the same as when a woman gives birth, a goat is slaughtered and the fat is applied on her, I mean they are old things really reminding me many things, when the mother comes out if it was two or three days, you will find her shining because of the fat she was applied, and there is also the tradition that in the first or second day you find the woman going to the market...
All: Laughing.
I: Mr.Hiza, for the stick in this current environment, you know its importance, how many money could you buy it from the market?
R: I can buy it for 20/= or 30/=, I can buy it to keep for the children's memories, for instance like this time I can see properties of Mr. Chei like that camera, there is a magnet, the camera has a magnet, and in fact his children carried many things for those who know about them, if I get this stick and walk with it at least one day although people will laugh at me.
source: Amani-Stade Project / Amani Field Research 2023, Interview No. 21
author: I: Mohamed Seif, R: Anonymous
Person
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National Institute for Medical Research (NIMR)
(Client)
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unknown actor
(wissenschaftlicheR BearbeiterIn)
Place